Simple changes that might deepen strategy

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Einarin
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Post by Einarin » Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:30 am

If we are going to allow the towers to hit explorers, the explorers shoul be able to hit the towers back. I am in favor of preventing them from hitting buildings, but towers should be the exception to keep the game balanced.

(two posts to keep two different ideas seperate)

Elvish Pillager
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Post by Elvish Pillager » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:07 pm

- Explorers can't hurt warriors currently. Taking donkyhotay's suggestion literally, the explorers would only be able to hurt workers.
- Why, really? Whence cometh this conviction that the ability to fight back is always necessary?
To feed good generals, you need good food. To grow good food, you need good pastures. To capture good pastures, you need good generals.

Einarin
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Post by Einarin » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:03 am

They don't have to be able to fight back, its just that it has to balance, I was unaware that explorers couldn't hurt warriors

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Donkyhotay
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Post by Donkyhotay » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:08 am

unless something has changed, explorers CAN hurt warriors but only when they have eaten fruit. As I remember when a warrior eats fruit it lowers it's armor rating which is to balance the power of fruit. So feeding a ton of fruit to your warriors will prevent them from being stolen but makes them easier to kill. I know this was true as of 0.18 but maybe it's changed between now and then.
do not be afraid to joust a giant just because some people insist on believing in windmills.

NoSpin
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Post by NoSpin » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:31 pm

right now is there any advantage to mixing explorers and warriors in your attack? Or is it better to use only one of them?

Elvish Pillager
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Post by Elvish Pillager » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:16 pm

Donkyhotay: True enough. Also, an explorer with enough experience can hurt warriors (it takes a LOT of experience though.) I was speaking in generalities.
To feed good generals, you need good food. To grow good food, you need good pastures. To capture good pastures, you need good generals.

Einarin
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Post by Einarin » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:28 am

Just thought I would note that as of 0.8.21 towers do hit explorers

Elvish Pillager
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Post by Elvish Pillager » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:09 pm

We know. :wink:
To feed good generals, you need good food. To grow good food, you need good pastures. To capture good pastures, you need good generals.

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Donkyhotay
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Post by Donkyhotay » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:30 am

I've been playing around more with LAN games against myself and I've found that the way things are is pretty good. A few recommendations I would make to balance things would be to increase the damage explorers do to warriors and prevent explorers from damaging buildings at all. I would then lessen the cost of a level2 tower slightly. Towers are devastating to explorers and a few situated around the base will repel ground attacking explorers fairly well though they get trashed by warriors. This would create a classic RTS triangle where unit A kills unit B which kills unit C which kills unit A. In this case warriors kill towers, towers kill explorers, explorers kill warriors. I also agree that lowering the amount of fruit carried per trip will help balance out the fruit better then a lowered armor rating currently does.
do not be afraid to joust a giant just because some people insist on believing in windmills.

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Donkyhotay
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Post by Donkyhotay » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:04 am

One way of making warriors weak against explorers would be to simply allow magic attacks to completely ignore armor. Another option to the fruit balance question is to increase the fruit penalty to armor. An extra 2 (or maybe 1.5) damage per hit per fruit eaten would certain make fruited warriors weak. I think this may unbalance things a bit so rather then have fruit lower the armor rating maybe it should instead lower the attack rating of the units instead.
do not be afraid to joust a giant just because some people insist on believing in windmills.

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Giszmo
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Post by Giszmo » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:33 am

Hi

I agree on this triangle thing. But to have it triangle, towers would have to be weaker against warriors. It takes some l3 warriors to destroy an l3 tower.

fruits: I suggest to make globs carry just one fruit at a time like any other ressource. Think of markets. As soon as they work the way I want them to work, markets will easily get filled with fruits just from one market next to every fruit and one glob filling it.
Grabbing ten fruits at a time from the ennemy base is too much.

Greetings, Giszmo

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Donkyhotay
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Post by Donkyhotay » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:24 pm

Your probably right, changing the amount of fruit carried would be a better way to balance the fruit. The way to balance towers against warriors would be to lower the towers HP. Since with the proposed change towers would be immune to explorer attacks HP would only affect how easily warriors can kill them. I think I'll try implementing this into the game and see what happens. I'll leave the fruit thing alone since you're already working on that.
do not be afraid to joust a giant just because some people insist on believing in windmills.

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Giszmo
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Post by Giszmo » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:28 pm

me? working on anything? I'd be happy if i could. It's saturday and I'm at work since 7 houres.

Unfortunately I can not do much more than advertise new players and programmers and participate at the ml.

Giszmo

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Post by NoSpin » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:41 pm

it should take several warriors to take out a tower. In fact i think they are a little weak at the moment. Just because we have the triangle going on does not mean that a single lone warrior has to be able to take out a tower singlehandedly. No, Towers take up more room which means less towers can fight in a single area and they take more resources and time to build. most games the warriors outnumber the towers. If the counter to towers is warriors that is fine make it so it is a three or four to one ratio.

The towers are plenty easy to beat with warriors, they get tough when other warriors decide to defend it. Towers are a great complement to warriors but suck when all by their self

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Donkyhotay
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Post by Donkyhotay » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:58 pm

Actually after taking a closer look and playing around a bit more I find that the way towers are now work pretty good. Level1 towers are cheap and do a pretty good job at taking out explorers (for some reason I thought only level2 towers could hit air). Towers will slow up warriors but as is well known towers die when a group of warriors come in to take them out. So the only thing I think should be done (and what I'm going to do) is modify the magic attacks so they are incapable of hitting buildings but it also completely bypasses armor which makes warriors weak against it.
Last edited by Donkyhotay on Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
do not be afraid to joust a giant just because some people insist on believing in windmills.

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