Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

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Zenfur
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Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by Zenfur » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:10 pm

I may try in October make advanced tutorial... with some basic strategies, and shortcuts. It can prevent noob asks for experienced players. Anyone have some suggestions or offer to help?
List of things that I should include in advanced tutorial (help me with this):
- farming, fertility... etc,
- some terminology and strategy basics, for example rushing,
- useful shortcuts,
- magic numbers (for example amount of converted units on the top... many ppl don't know what does it mean)
- (suggest something?)
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fede
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Re: Advanced tutorial

Post by fede » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:31 pm

converted units?? i know only free/total workers-birds-warriors display !!
Now i understand how did you bash me lin our games.. put a screenshot please :shock:
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4 fede

Post by Zenfur » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:35 pm

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1 - how many free workers
2 - total amount of workers
3 - how many free explorers
4 - total amount of explorers
5 - how many free warriors
6 - total amount of warriors
7 - how many prestiege do you have
8 - total amount of prestiege on the map
9 - prestiege needed to end game
10 - how many units did you convert
11 - picture FAIL
12 - how many units were converted from you
13 - lag bar
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Re: Advanced tutorial

Post by fede » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:58 pm

thanks :>
We will see next time in game ! :twisted:
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Giszmo
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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by Giszmo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:23 am

lag-bar explained:
|=== |
0% 100%
everything in this range is green or orange and does not lag the others. everything beyond 100% is red. 200% means you go only half the speed which is 12fps so all the others have to go 12fps too to stay in sync.
in glob2 gfx is 100% coupled with the game physics. in order to not lag others we might implement some "don't wait for slow machines" host setting so in that game the one with a slow machine may only see every 2nd or 5th frame.

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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by Zenfur » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:08 pm

Well October has past long time ago, maybe for the new version of glob, 0.9.5 somebody will offer help to this ? If not, works will be very slow :(
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pejsek
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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by pejsek » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:35 pm

Zenfur wrote:Well October has past long time ago, maybe for the new version of glob, 0.9.5 somebody will offer help to this ? If not, works will be very slow :(
I would like to help you with this, but unfortunately I've got no experiences in map making and I haven't even look in editor, so I don't know anything about the scripting etc. I believe I'd be no help for you. Nevertheless, some ideas what can be included in this tutorial:

- fruit issues, especially how to defend against converting
- flags and area handling, combination of various flags and areas to make globules work/fight effectively
- playing with building/flag priorities to be able to make balance between training and engaging in battles/maintaining buildings
- handling two or more bases
- basic strategies in playing with allies
- "micro" with flags (as in Assassination mission)
- building bases (I'm not sure how this is handled in basic tutorial, but I believe there is that "build first inn and hospital" strategy)
- defending bases - guard areas, walls, turrets
- maybe using those fertility/hunger maps? I use them scarsely myself.
- fighting with explorers
- farming
- pillaging enemy's algae/wheat
- some epic battle for fun
- base design for effective movement of globs
- learn how to defeat Zenfur

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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by Zenfur » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:19 pm

Zenfur wrote:I may try in October make advanced tutorial... with some basic strategies, and shortcuts. It can prevent noob asks for experienced players. Anyone have some suggestions or offer to help?
List of things that I should include in advanced tutorial (help me with this):
- farming, fertility... etc,
- some terminology and strategy basics, for example rushing,
- useful shortcuts,
- magic numbers (for example amount of converted units on the top... many ppl don't know what does it mean)
- (suggest something?)
these were my ideas;
pejsek wrote:
Zenfur wrote:Well October has past long time ago, maybe for the new version of glob, 0.9.5 somebody will offer help to this ? If not, works will be very slow :(
I would like to help you with this, but unfortunately I've got no experiences in map making and I haven't even look in editor, so I don't know anything about the scripting etc. I believe I'd be no help for you. Nevertheless, some ideas what can be included in this tutorial:

- fruit issues, especially how to defend against converting
- flags and area handling, combination of various flags and areas to make globules work/fight effectively
- playing with building/flag priorities to be able to make balance between training and engaging in battles/maintaining buildings
- handling two or more bases
- basic strategies in playing with allies
- "micro" with flags (as in Assassination mission)
- building bases (I'm not sure how this is handled in basic tutorial, but I believe there is that "build first inn and hospital" strategy)
- defending bases - guard areas, walls, turrets
- maybe using those fertility/hunger maps? I use them scarsely myself.
- fighting with explorers
- farming
- pillaging enemy's algae/wheat
- some epic battle for fun
- base design for effective movement of globs
- learn how to defeat Zenfur
Very cool! That's what was I looking for! I may make the maps, script that, etc, you may plan what should be mentioned first. We need also to deeply study the currently existing tutorial and point what is in what order showed there. I've already studied it, but I didn't list what and when...

You know... but your propositions are not for advanced tutorial but for tactics basics! For 5th and 6th missions of tutorial I would include magic numbers (as an addiction to 4th/3rd missin(I don't remember which one)), explaining what does clearing/guard/forbidden areas do, priorities, farming/fertility - just tell what it is and how to use it, fruits issues - but not how to defend, but how it works! In tutorial it's said that it'll be mentioned farther as far as I remember.

It would be in 5th/6th missions of our tutorial enlargement.
Other stuff you offered are really cool! I think that we can make P/Z Tactic Baisics - campaign (P/Z - Pejsek/Zenfur). What about it?
pejsek wrote: - fruit issues, especially how to defend against converting
of course
pejsek wrote: - flags and area handling, combination of various flags and areas to make globules work/fight effectively
hmmm could you expand it a little?
pejsek wrote: - playing with building/flag priorities to be able to make balance between training and engaging in battles/maintaining buildings
it's the most important issue in every tactic, sure - economy
pejsek wrote: - handling two or more bases
:D it's just player's thing if he's sharp minded and focused enough, and has enough reflex, here I can only advice, but this thing I think that can't be taught
pejsek wrote: - basic strategies in playing with allies
worth mentioning, especially if Giszmo accepts my suggestion for more ally options (T^T)
(http://glob2.uservoice.com/forums/4988- ... ce-options)
pejsek wrote: - "micro" with flags (as in Assassination mission)
hmmm I don't know if it's really needed - I would just say what are the most dangerous targets to destroy in the highest priority - this is imho flag micro,
if you expand it we'll see.
pejsek wrote: - building bases (I'm not sure how this is handled in basic tutorial, but I believe there is that "build first inn and hospital" strategy)
build inn and hospital first?! are you crazy?! build 2 swarms first!!! :P It's just adviced to have many inns and hospitals first, but it's good to tell about it again.
pejsek wrote: - defending bases - guard areas, walls, turrets
sure
pejsek wrote: - farming
pejsek wrote: - maybe using those fertility/hunger maps? I use them scarsely myself.
this as one: yes, this may be expanded in tactics basics, there are special tactics for extreme resource situations
pejsek wrote: - fighting with explorers
absolutely
pejsek wrote: - pillaging enemy's algae/wheat
yeah
pejsek wrote: some epic battle for fun
for the end of campaign ^^
pejsek wrote: - base design for effective movement of globs
hmmm.... hmmmmmm.... HM.... it should be attached with "flag micro" imho
pejsek wrote: - learn how to defeat Zenfur
MUAHAHAHAHH!!! :twisted: It's impossible, didn't you know? At least I don't know the way, do you?
Joking... :mrgreen: I am very poor lately :cry:

Suming this up : let's meet on irc or wherever/jabber etc. and talk how should this look like, and who should do what.

PS: I suggest that it all should have a funny character - like "SALUT SOLDIER! OUR &$&#$^ GENERALS HAVE GAVE US NEXT CANNON-FODDER TO TEACH HOW TO FIGHT! HAHAHAHA.... (I hate this job). WELL ANYWAY, WE'LL SEE WHAT WILLPOWER YOU HAVE AND HOW SMART YOU ARE! This is your first mission to...." blah blah blah :)

PSPS: sorry for posting soooo long posts :)
Greetings!! ت
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pejsek
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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by pejsek » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:10 pm

Thanks for reply, Zenfur. I'm afraid I misinterpreted what tutorial should be about, thanks for correcting. I looked at the basic tutorial and now I understand. Now I can also put the missing pieces together. What I think should be added:

1) fruits are introduced, but not explained. Therefore, points concerning fruits:

a) there are three kinds of fruits
b) fruits have negative effects on warriors
c) fruits have positive effects on units happiness (can be seen on statistics window)
d) units choose inns according to variety of fruits it offers.
e) you can make your inns visible to enemy units
f) if there is no free inn AND enemy has visible inns, your unit will convert
g) if there is free inn AND enemy has visible inns AND has better variety of food, your unit will convert
h) if your unit is hungry and can't convert, it stops working/fighting and eventually lost its health (food managing was also only introduced, but not explained)
( i) you can take control of fruit forests by building towers/sending warriors)

2) flags are introduced, only war and exploring flags is used though. Points concerning flags:

a) as for war flag, you can choose warriors of which level should go to battle
b) there are also clearing flag, you can use it e.g. in cases c) or d) or e)
c) you need to dig your way through forest
d) you need to make place for your building
e) you want to destroy enemy's farm or algae
f) clearing one resource gives 10 damage to worker.
g) you can choose specific type of resource to clear
h) Tree consists of one resource, wheat, papyrus and algae of up to five, stones and fruits can't be cleared
i) units are attracted to flags - that means they prefer wandering around flags instead of training or visiting special areas
(ji) as for exploring flag, you can choose ground attacking explorers)

3) as for areas, only guard area was introduced. Points concerning areas:

a) there are three types of areas
b) there are eights types of area brushes
c) guard area is the only one that attracts globs but warriors go in guard area only when there isn't anything else they can do
c) you can use clearing areas in case you want to do d) or e)
d) keep resources from growing in certain places, e.g. spaces between buildings, way to inn etc.
e) clear resources for future building, but you are in no hurry to do that
f) forbidden flags prevents workers and warriors from entering them. Therefore they can be used for g) - m):
g) farming (here could be explained farming strategy (but which one? Many of you uses chessboard, I use the wide gapped farms. And on wiki is introduced even another kind of farm - http://globulation2.org/wiki/Farming. This should be maybe resolved before introducing farms.))
h) preventing your workers to collect fruits
i) preventing your warriors from attacking non-significant buildings
j) preventing your warriors from following lurking warriors of enemy
k) closing small gaps between buildings and preventing jams
( l) with combination with clearing flags or war flags it could be used to build nice routes through forests or guide your warriors through hostile territory - this is the point you asked me for expanding, is it clear now what I mean by that? I can make screenshot of what I mean)
m) preventing workers from attending at third level schools so you can train explorers first

4) third level of buildings was only mentioned. Points concerning third level of buildings, esp. schools

a) they can be built only by workers, who studied in second level schools
b) it is the last level
c) third level inn is slightly bigger, player should have this in mind when planning building of inns
d) third level school does e) - i)
e) add prestige (at this point whole prestige thing should be explained)
f) train workers in faster harvesting and building
g) train explorers!
h) trained explorers can attack units, but not buildings
i) third level school is the most important building in game (I think) - it should be defended and enemy's should be destroyed

5) priorities wasn't mentioned at all, I believe the tutorial was made before this micro-managing concept was introduced to Globulation. Therefore:

a) you can choose which buiding/flag should be attended first by choosing low/mid/high
b) when you have high-priority building, you can lower assigned number of workers at other buildings - they will go working on the higher priority one
c) to be sure your inns and swarms will be always full of wheat, you can switch them to high priority

6) statistics window wasn't introduced at all.
7) same for the graph/maps window


So, what about that? I kicked out the strategy things and tried to put related issues together. I will think about it more in next days, how to put those things in some logical order to make it playable and understandable. I haven't got Jabber nor icq, but we can meet on IRC for sure. If you are often there, you can just PM me when I can find you there and I'll try to make time. Unfortunately I have lots of tasks for school, so I don't know when I will have free time. Thanks for opening this idea of advanced tutorial, it is great and it would be probably helpful if we manage to make it.

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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by Zenfur » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:33 am

Things to add:
I'd also add what are conditions to make the ground fertilied and what makes resources to grow :) (http://globulation2.org/wiki/Resource_Algorithm)
I'd also mention about line and square building possibility :)


1b - not only warriors
1g - one more value attracts globules - if inn is upgraded
1f - AND enemy's inns have free space and spare wheat to feed
(merge f and g)
1i - it's usually done by sending explorers, but later of course tower

2c - not only forest - just resources except stone and fruits

3c - there should be also explained difference between war flag. in guard area they go to hospitals at yellow health, in war flag they go at red
3d - I believe that well maintained city doesn't have to matter about it, globules looking for wheat will take it away before it'll be a problem
3e - as up here, I almost never do that... only in maps where there is really too much resources and you are on the little island of free space
3g - well.. I would just show the idea of the farming with 3 examples. The fastest and the more effective way to farm is chesslike, the less is square.... I don't like row one... imho it 's poor... but we have to remember about +es of slow farming - there is more wheat on the beggining which can allow you to pwn all the world on small maps ^^.

4d - I would add that all upgraded buildings are for upgraded units to maintain - upgraded inns can be filled with inn only by level 2 and 3,4 workers.
8 - we should say something about replays too since if we manage to make it - it'll be in 0.9.5 version and they are already implemented (bugged though, it showed that I lost a game... when I won it >.< it was totally different situation :S)
pejsek wrote: So, what about that? I kicked out the strategy things and tried to put related issues together. I will think about it more in next days, how to put those things in some logical order to make it playable and understandable. I haven't got Jabber nor icq, but we can meet on IRC for sure. If you are often there, you can just PM me when I can find you there and I'll try to make time. Unfortunately I have lots of tasks for school, so I don't know when I will have free time. Thanks for opening this idea of advanced tutorial, it is great and it would be probably helpful if we manage to make it.
It's really nice! To add it to the already existing tutorial I'd point out what and when happens in it and see how we could interfere. I think that we'll add at least 2 scenarios to it. I may point it out if you want.
Yes I am often on the IRC, usually evenings almost every day (evening - 17:00-21:00 GMT + 1(CET))
I am to not show every secret of this game... it was pretty funny and enjoyable to explore it by yourself... I would add some SPOILER WARNING to the first mission of tutorial ^^. I believe you don't want to continue Basic Tactics idea ? Ofc ADV tut is in higher priority imho.
I'll be able to start works in next week, I'll try to point all in tutorial yet today or tomorrow.
See you on the IRC :twisted:
Greetings!! ت
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Re: Advanced tutorial (Planned Campaign)

Post by Zenfur » Sat May 15, 2010 2:14 pm

pejsek: so may you come on the irc?
important thing: I wonder if we shall start it with SGSL or wait till USL
Greetings!! ت
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